Just wanted to say hi and let Mike know I think his site is extremly helpful to anyone that is trying to loose weight for the first time or body builders wanting to bulk up and put on some muscle. Last year I spent hrs on the net looking for info on how to loose fat and gain muscle but only this week came across this site after doing a search for "starchy carbs" in google, its great! diets already done for you workout programs the lot and for "free" everyone else wants $, I must also say that after a year of researching all things fitness on probably thousands of different sites your one site has everything on it anyone needs to know without filling thier heads with all the confusing crap out there. A little bit about myself, Iam 40 years old, 6'3, live in Sydney Australia and for the first time in my life I got what I would call almost fit during 2007 going from 242lbs to 187lbs, workouts were HIT (Mike Mentzer style) every third day and 40mins cardio everyday, after four full on months I was benching 220lbs x 10, curling 99lbs x 10 and squating 308lbs x10 and feeling great, at work one afternoon I slipped on some ice and landed on my right knee and done some internal damage and that was it!! I stopped everything (foolish me). Well back to 242lbs again knee is fine and about to start all over, I done my first workout five days ago (not hit, Mike's fitness style) and Iam still sore, just above the elbows on the back of the arm and all through the chest. Loosing weight and getting fit is damn hard work and I can now relate to all those people that have fell of the wagon, months and months of hard work down the drain, but this time is different no going back!! I call it the road to redemption I will keep in touch with my progess.
Two questions; If your still sore put your next work out off until your not right? Is muscle memory true or false?
Comments for this blog entry.
mike on 21-Aug-08
Welcome, Rusty! Thanks for the good words about my site! Those are were impressive lifts you had at 187 pounds and only a few months of working out!! Did you play sports or do training earlier in your life?
From what I've seen, Mike Mentzer's low-volume type of training (HIT) does not work that well for most people, but your results certainly were phenomentally good. While variety and trying different approaches is always useful, because you appear to respond to HIT so well I would consider making that type of training the core of your program for much of the year and spend maybe 4-6 months of the year on different other approaches such as more typical higher volume bodybuilding type training I have in most programs or strength-specific training (such as http://www.mikesfitness.com/article_weight3daystr.php )
As to your questions... Yes, "muscle memory" is definitely true -- it's easier to regain strength or rebuild muscle mass the 2nd time than the first. And yes, I would postpone the workout if the muscle group being worked is still sore. Of course, if you are sore elsewhere, you can still work out -- if you have, say, sore biceps you can still do squats.
rusty on 21-Aug-08
Hi Mike, thanks for your reply, football was the only sport I ever played (rugby league) but that stopped when I was sixteen and work became the main focus, I responded well strengh wise but no so much in muscle size, my wife and friends said they really saw the differance but I didn't think I got the gains I should have for the amount of busting my ass I done, reading another of Mentzers books he states this is always the case and size will eventually follow strengh gains? I probably stoped just when I was about to see good results! Yes it was strange the lighter I got the more weight I was lifting, when I first started weighing in at an extremly unhealthy 110kg or 242lbs I strugled benching 40kgs or 88lbs X 10 times, I worked out by myself at home on a powertec home gym with no partner and always worked to failure on each excersize ! do you believe in working to failure? What I was thinking this time was working out with your program for three months until I start lifting heavy again then swaping over to hit for a month then swaping back and forth each month, what do you think?
mdg on 21-Aug-08
you are one strong dude! welcome
bigbubba on 21-Aug-08
A *very* strong dude. How much are you lifting at this point?
rusty on 21-Aug-08
Thanks mdg, thanks bigbubba, just remember though the style of workout I was doing was only one set of each excersize to failure so maximum is ten reps if you get 10 you increase weight and go for 8 until you get 10 agian then add more weight go for 8 again etc, I wasn't doing 3-5 sets of each!! last week I done my first workout again, I didnt do the one set to failure thing but this time done mutiple sets of each, I slightly modified the workout so I was adding more weight and decressing reps each time, bench I started with 40kg or 88lb for 12 reps, then 45kg or 99lb for 10, 50kg or 110lb for 8, 55kg or 121lb for 6 than back to 40kg for another 12 followed immediatly by some very light flys for another 12. (Is this ok Mike or should I just be sticking to the same weight for three sets of 10 when doing multiple sets and making sure Iam struggling with the last few lifts of the last set?) The flys should have been heavier but I was R.S, sorry R.S in Oz means Rat Shit or "exauhsted" that was chest and like I stated before I stupidly overdone it for my first workout back as 5 days later my chest and the backs of my arms just above the elbow are still hurting, I can hardly lift my forearms up,I should be doing the same workout again today but I think I might just give it another day or two!! Like Mike said I can still do my legs again. I will keep you guys up to date and when I get the chance I'll post some photo's of before and after on my last effort and some new ones this time around.
guest on 21-Aug-08
Sorry guys doing a bit of speed typing and forget my grammer, where I sate "so I was adding more weight and decressing reps each time" I should have finshed and addressed bigbubba's question this time around I satrted with benching
mike on 22-Aug-08
Rusty, yes, for most people training purely for general fitness and improved body composition, going to failure most of the time will be most effective.
When training specifically for strength, I actually don't recommend going to failure most of the time and I do think most people could benefit from doing a strength-specific program at least once or twice a year.
Your previous results with HIT are again definitely out of the ordinary. If you generalized what an average untrained person can expect in the first several months of training I'd say 50% strength gain on compound exercises like the bench press, deadlift or squat would be good and 100% would be exceptional. You went from 88 lbs to 220lbs on the bench press -- an almost 200% gain! Even in absolute terms 220 x 10 bench and 308 x 10 squat are far above average for a 187-pound man, even those who have trained for several years (I assume these are freeweights -- if they're machines or levers, then it's much harder to judge absolute strength since every machine is different).
As far as my programs on this site, I think all of them without exception recommend using the same weight for all of your sets for a given exercise -- if you are going to failure you simply won't be able to do as many reps on the later sets. So something like 10 reps to failure on first set, 8 on second, and 7 on third is typical, with 90-120 second rest between sets. I don't include warm-up sets in the program description but I would do them something like general stretching and full-body warm-up, 1/3 of working weight for 8-10 reps, 2/3 of working weight for 4-5 reps and then start the to-failure sets with your regular weight. So if you're, say, 300-pound squats, you would stretch, do a 10-rep set with ~100, then a 5-rep set with ~200, and then proceed to your working 300-pound weight.
Looking forward to seeing your before and after pictures! Let me know if you have trouble linking to them in your blog. You basically first need to upload them to a site like Photobucket and then copy their URLs on Photobucked and paste them into the dialog box that comes up when you click the little tree icon while editing your entry.
rusty on 22-Aug-08
Sorry didn't mean to make anyone sick with the before photo, this is after three months of training.
rusty on 22-Aug-08
Like I said didn't mean to make anyone feel sick!!
rusty on 22-Aug-08
Sorry for the pixalated photos they are the result of posting them on this site, deleting them from photobucket realising when you delete them from photobucket it also deletes them from wherever you send them, putting them back in photobucket and this is how they came out second time around, sorry!! I dug out a copy of my old workout it went like this.
Squats
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Dumbbell Pullovers
Barbell Overhead Shoulder Press
Seated Rows
Bench Press
Barbell Bicep Curls
Tricep Extensions
Weighted Pullups
Weighted Dips
Standing Calf Raises
Abs
All one set to failure three times aweek, 40mins cardio everyday.
rusty on 22-Aug-08
Mike couldn't edit my last post or edit photo's I think it may have something to do with the time and date differance between the US and here, if you can get rid of the photo's or explain to me how to do it I will re-post them again so you can actually see them, thanks.
mike on 23-Aug-08
Rusty, as you requested I deleted your links to Photobucket, so you can re-post them again. It'd be best if you started a new blog entry and posted there (you can edit blog entries, but not blog comments) -- click "Edit Today's Entry" button instead of "Add Comment" button when you are logged in to your blog. It's best to create a new entry for each new day than to keep adding comments to old entries. You also may want to post photos one under the other instead of side-by-side, so they don't stretch the screen. Not a big deal though. Let me know if you have problems with it.
Your workout is typical HIT (I actually have something similar as a low-volume choice -- http://www.mikesfitness.com/article_weight3daylowvol.php ) and judging even from the pixelated photos your progress was tremendous, especially for just 3 months. For most people it'd take a year or more to achieve similar results, even with dedicated training, cardio, and diet. So that confirms what we both already said -- that you respond very well to HIT and that it makes sense to continue making HIT a large part of your program with a several months out of the year spent using other methods.
Thanks for posting the photos with your progress again!
rusty on 23-Aug-08
rusty on 23-Aug-08
Like I said didn't mean to make anyone feel sick, I feel good today so I am going to give the upper body a nudge, Iam going to do what you said Mike, 3 sets of each to failure with the same weight, its only my second workout back so I might start with 60kg or 132lbs for bench and 20kg or 44lb for curls and 80kg or 176lb for squats i'll let you know how I go.
rusty on 23-Aug-08
Done the workout thismorning, Chest / Shoulders / Triceps no squats or curls I am still getting used to this program, struggled just like I did when starting before, I cant wait to get to the point again where there is no pain lifting only effort, workout went like this.
Incline BB Press 6x20kg or 44lbs, sorry I'll just convert everything to lb's. 4x88lb, 10x132lb, 5x132lb, 2x132lb, will stay with this weight and aim for more reps on second and third sets.
Flat Bench DB, 10x 29lb each DB 10X29LB, 5X29LB will stick with this weight until I get 10 on last set.
Incline DB Flies, 10x19lb eacc DB, 10x19, 5x19, will stick with this weight as well.
Shoulder DB Press, 10x19lb each DB, 6x19lb, 6x19lb, same weight again.
Upright rows, I done seated rows as I havn't got a bar, will have to get one! 10x110lb,10x110lb,10x110lb will add another 10lb next time round.
Side DB Raises, 8x19lb each DB, 5x19lb, 4x19lb, really struugled with these, never done them before, will stick with this weight until Iam geting 10 in each set.
Skullcrushers, havn't got a bar so done standing overhead pullovers, 10x33lbs, 7x33lbs, 6x33lbs, same again until I get 10 in each set.
Overhead DB Extensions, 10x25lbs,10x25lbs,10x25lbs will add more weight next time.
Followed it up with 20mins bike, I do one minute at level six intensity 1 minute level seven, one level eight then back to six again making sure I maintain the same speed for all levels about 25kmph or 15.5 miles phr, on the last set I include levels 6,7,8 then I bust my ass with one minute of level 10 before doing 2 mins warming down. Done workout out and cardio on an empty gut, had 2 scoops or 48grams of protien in a shake straight after ("on" protien powder, yes Mike choc is the best flavour I tried them all until I just stuck with choc) as well as a bowl of porridge with water and a dash of skim milk and honey, then drank a litre of water about a half hr later. Feel good after workout no aches or pain, as usual thought I could have tried harder but it will come.
rusty on 24-Aug-08
Just a few pics of the home gym I use, it all works on leverage and free weights, the pic of the bike is another hobbie, if you want a cardio workout buy one of these.
mike on 24-Aug-08
Nice workout, Rusty! Don't worry too much about whether you're sore the day after or not -- it's really not an indicator of workout quality. It's perfectly possible to make great progress without almost ever getting sore. And soreness is always greatest when starting a new exercise or coming back from a break and diminishes as your body "gets used" to the program.
Please start a new blog entry next time -- otherwise your blog remains stamped with the date of your original first entry and from the main blogs page it looks like it hasn't been updated. To start a new entry, click "Edit Today's Entry" button (instead of "Add Comment") when you are logged in to your blog.
The machines you are using are levered, so it's impossible to tell what they would translate to when using freeweights. Ideally they would be 1:1 with true freeweights, but in my experience that hardly ever happens. If you ever get an opportunity to use freeweights in the gym maybe it'd be interesting to see your lifts there.
Like I said didn't mean to make anyone feel sick, I feel good today so I am going to give the upper body a nudge, Iam going to do what you said Mike, 3 sets of each to failure with the same weight, its only my second workout back so I might start with 60kg or 132lbs for bench and 20kg or 44lb for curls and 80kg or 176lb for squats i'll let you know how I go.
Just a few pics of the home gym I use, it all works on leverage and free weights, the pic of the bike is another hobbie, if you want a cardio workout buy one of these.